Curious comment. Watch key board warriors loose their mind. He pulled out a 9mm round and a 45 acp round and held them both in his hand. I found the same thing using mag primers vs stock. I knew folks who carried small .22LR automatics (Beretta etc) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN. Their unique testing is quite helpful in choosing ammo and seeing what happens in similar barrels. Furthermore, the 9mm is more practical for the average shooter looking to spend time on the range. More stopping power. If the latter is true, the .45acp is still a better round. I can't imagine that trade would be so great either. Scenario: Armed burglar breaks in and is standing in the area in which your child/roommate's facilities is now based behind him. If youre firing 9mm ammo with a pistol caliber carbine, expect to get another 5-10% velocity out of your ammo. I myself started out carrying a 22.lr handgun because it was what I shot since I was a kid. ), or a S&W in 30 Super Carry. The Lehigh Defense 70gr HERO loading exited the muzzle at a staggering average of 1784fps from the G34 and only lost 234pfs going down to the minute G43, which works out to only 15% loss. No longer carry a 1911, I now prefer Glock. CZ Evo carbine & pistol, a Mac 1911 45 & many others. For me, it's an SR1911, an old 4x4 Toyota with a stick, and a Pedulla my choices on all 3 are exactly the same i thought that was oddly coincidental since all 3 are not the most common choices. yo prefiero una .45 acp de gran capacidad, p 14, una mega star, una glock en modelos 21 y 30; todas ellas por el gran poder de contundencia. Certainly this is easy to understand with the .44 Magnum because it's increased velocity and mass produces essentially twice that of 9mm, but you can't say that about the other calibers. I am not an expert, I've never had a bear encounter. NYPD study had their officers at 18% accuracy in gunfights. Good stopping power and less likely to penetrate walls and hit a bystander. After all, it was the official sidearm of the United States Armed Forces during two World Wars and remained so up until the 1980s. It squirts so much flame out the sides it would scare an attacker half to death. You think you can outshoot SWAT? However the 9mm is much faster. Even better if you have the means and the skills to build one yourself, get to know what you're shooting inside and out! This is repeated in Winchesters Power Max cartridges. I like both.. When you actually test the loads on living breathing targets (like the Strasbourg test) , that (to me) is the best indicator. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. I agree Patrick. I totally agree with the author. Ok, Id agree thats a pretty reasoned response - its a complex issue (eg. Easier to conceal and handle. the increased effectiveness of the .45 ACP roound is negligible with today's modern expanding bullets. I want more rounds with less recoil. At the end of the day though, a bigger bullet is theoretically better. I am purest. Firing 12 rounds my 9 mm wouldn't penetrate it or do catastrophic damage to it. The 135-grain Critical Duty load, by contrast, travels at 1,100 fps from a five-inch pistol and generates 369 ft.-lbs. All the advancement that improved the once weak 9mm have also been applied to the historically reliable and powerful 45. Muzzle Energy: 369 lb/ft (230gr at 850FPS) 304 lb/ft (124gr at 1050FPS) . Badda Bing, Badda Boom. I like the expansion of the Ranger series so I will stay with 45. Inside the home I find .45 is the most comfortable. How about THIS for a head fake?! And if USA made the job in the Pacific, in Europe it was USSR, for WW2. In the real world a single hit with a .45 will stop him." With a wider selection of officers being able to shoot handguns chambered in 919mm, many departments choose this caliber so they can standardize around a single firearm and loading, making logistics and supply easier. One thing I see a lot of people point to as proof that the 9mm is nearly identical to the .45 ACP in performance is the FBI testing protocol. Or is it just a complex but unimportant piece of data, meant for people who are seriously interested in (and can mentally tolerate) the complex physics of shooting? https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/03/9mm-40-45-acp-stopping-power/ I still posses a .45 among my various handguns, and I still enjoy shooting with it. Muzzle velocity is something youll see on boxes of ammunition and on ballistics stat sheets, but you may not know exactly how muzzle velocity impacts performance. We'll send you the latest guides and training tips geared The _ga cookie, installed by Google Analytics, calculates visitor, session and campaign data and also keeps track of site usage for the site's analytics report. By Josh Wayner Last time I saw the statistics on it, most domestic self defense gun fights occur in 6 or less feet. My 45 acp has a muzzle velosity of 1000 fps 510 foot lbs. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. I know the adrenaline dump and freeze response. It is inherently easy to remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well. Perhaps the slowing velocity is a factor here, but that seems unlikely to me. Karl, youre embarrassing yourself with this vendetta. Lusting after a 20 from which to shoot green tips. Id learned that doing 33 separate factory loadings in four pistols in the same conditions was a tall order to fill. .40 S&W. 9mm can be a reasonable choice. And, once you get below 9 rounds in the weapon, bullet effectiveness becomes much more important. .45 People talk about stopping power and knock down power. . yeahyou say the 9mm bullet has gotten better, but in reality both have gotten better. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: Perhaps they can be banned for possession while in public , I could stomach that. Muzzle velocity is key. It could be that when hollow points fail, 9mm isn't going deep enough, and perhaps the FMJ's don't overpenetrate in this caliber as much as others (especially because the most popular FMJ rounds are usually lighter 115 grain bullets). In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. Happily, I have some larger mags which were purchased prior to the 10+ ban, so are 'grandfathered' in! From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. He further explained that smaller shooters found the 45 to be more accurate on follow up shots due to the reduced muzzle movement. I'm building a couple of .45s now. But barrier's and body armor slows 45's down to BB gun effectiveness! The only drawback is that it is not super concealable for every day, but I havent looked into a shoulder holster. I also carry the Ruger LC9 as a backup. A big, fat, 230 grain hollow point at that speed will drop the MF faster than a 9mm any day of the week.. My state has a 10 round limit. Really? Another fact if you shoot an assailant far enough away that bullet drop comes into play, you will have problems in court. I personally know of more more people surviving being shot with a 9 than a 45acp. The .45acp makes bigger holes, all else being equal. At a 30% hit rate during actual combat (due to adrenaline and urgency of quickness) add in a fall rate like no other (45) and it drops to 20%. Don't be scared but owning a gun is a responsibility. Loading 41 mag to pussycat loads could bring it down to cross over with the 10. lbs. "Facts" for silly children, maybe. This length ratio maximizes the projectile velocity. Hi Howard, I am NO EXPERT! I am not a Glock guy by any means, but ammo is ammo and I always find tested results like these to be useful. As well as reliability? and 45LC with one shot kills, both head shots. The choice for anybody should be what they are comfortable with and accurate with. I compete with them all. Different bullets, however, will perform differently when it comes to loss of speed. My husband doesn't like the sound of loud guns, so I might buy a silencer for it if this will let me buy a gun for myself without him complaining about its sounds when I'm training. If the wound channel is indeed the same, then the 45 is the inferior round in all regards except home defense. http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php If you look up the Buckeye Firearms Association article comparing calibers, 9mm fails to incapacitate 13% of the time while .45 ACP fails to incapacitate 14%. Recoil is largely the same between the 9x9mm and the .45 ACP. Theres no doubt that the .45 ACP is a classic handgun thats not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but it doesnt outperform the 9mm. .45 is for nostalgia crazed red necks that can't let go of the past. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. . Edit : You can get a firearms licence in this country but you have to be a farmer or pheasant shooter with an impeccable criminal history and with verified references and personality tests. The reason is recoil and recovery. Something I noticed was that the percentage of loss among all nine millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately 10%. That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound). I own both calibers with two semi autos chambered for each. YouTube sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data. If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. Unfortunately I sense America is way beyond that point. In my under experienced mind, you don't take 4 .45 rounds to the upper body and suffer life threatening injuries.you just plain and simply die. They obviously apply to other calibers as well. I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. So you can literally grab, draw, aim and shoot. as nickel-plated cases that resist corrosion and optimized propellants that burn quickly to reduce recoil and limit muzzle flash, help ensure that Critical Defense ammo is dependable in every situation. Why would a European war require Brits to fight for the U. S. We helped you with your war, you didnt help us with our war. 9mm became the universal choice and approved by agency bookkeepers and bean counters. Thank you, however for the work on showcasing the loadsRead more . One of the biggest I've seen taken was 465lb. Go to a range and rent some guns until you find one that you can shoot well. On these metrics, the rounds are generall equal. I was watching COPS and some ACCIDENTALLY shot a 45 at a motel, it went across a 100 foot (or so) Court yard through the Flimsy motel doors Hit a man standing up and the bullet fell into the man's POCKET!! This testing is very valuable to many 9 mm shooters. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. I also agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that. is go to a range and try both. In case you actually see this, if you are wondering about self defense in the home, you need a shotgun. Today's 45s aren't that slow. RIFLE BALLISTICS. Unless you've been through Massad Ayoob's classes you'll be useless once you're adrenalized. Not saying I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50%. And because 9mm ammo is so relatively inexpensive, it permits its shooter to practice longer and more often. People don't. This is why K.E. "taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries" is a standard line because police and EMS cannot pronounce death. But to a victim or an attacker, what happens when an intruder gets hit by birdshot may be a lot different to 00. For home defence, I have .38 special, 9mm and a 12 GA shotgun squirreled away. Just for amusement value (not scientific) I once fired a glock 17 with a fmj 115 gr bullet into a ten inch square creosoted fence post. First of all, a higher muzzle velocity will mean a straighter trajectory down range. I'm just a regular guy, but shot placement would rule my decision. The .45, it started stopping threats way back in 1911 and it still does just as well today. lbs.). The important things here are Bullet Type, and bullet placement. The 9mm carbine is rapidly replacing the 12-gauge shotgun in many areas of law enforcement, because it holds more ammunition, makes hits more easily, and has negligible recoil. Typically, a 9mm gun muzzle velocity ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain of the round. If the bullet is traveling slowly, it will generally drop sooner, like the tossed ball; if it is hurled with speed, like the fastball, it will maintain a straight trajectory. The attacker broke in through that door and the lady emptied her revolver into the guy before he was stopped. . I've personally had the experience of using a Thompson .45 submachine gun (A1 army variant) full automatic. Thats half an in bigger then the 9mm? One of the great things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY! I guarantee you I'll stop an attacker in fraction of the time you'll do it with a 9mm aiming center mass. But if the FBI and cops have reverted to 9mm, I'm comfortable with it too. Best Barrel Length For 9mm Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. A 230 grain .452" diameter projectile traveling at 835 fps has a Taylor KO of 12 while a 124 grain .355" diameter projectile traveling at 1150 fps has a Taylor KO of 7. Thank You! All the comments are great. I know the kimber is a little bit bigger but from what I can tell not a noticeable difference because the sig comes with an extended clip with a finger grip on it which you would definitely want if you didnt want your little finger to hang off the bottom. Most shooters will find two specific advantages to a higher muzzle velocity, differences that impact how the bullet maintains a trajectory and how the bullet performs when it impacts the target. 1 thing that cannot be argued is that the 22 cal is very effective. Hi John, I enjoyed your comments. BE SAFE!! We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The 9x19mm allows you to make more holes, from a standard pistol, than a .45 caliber pistol [albeit only 2-4 more rounds in the 9mm]. Muzzle velocity is the speed of the bullet as once it leaves the barrel. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. What's the data source that claim is based on? American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. However, there might not be enough time for all that. Best advice ever. Threat is neutralized. ERIC! Lots of experts claiming facts on stopping power, energy, penetration, etc. I like both & depending on where I'm going, how long I'll be gone, what I'm wearing & how I'm feeling makes my choice for me. Call me crazy but home defense SCREAMS for a good ole Mossberg cruiser with a nice laser sight and maybe a strong, blinding flashlight for perps' who go 'bump in the night' into your coffee table. If you can't understand that, you'll learn once you gain more experience. Vimeo installs this cookie to collect tracking information by setting a unique ID to embed videos to the website. My instructors told me that the main r reason the Navy didn't want to switch to a 9mm was that you can hit a 300 pound man with a 9mm as he's running toward you. Its simple physics whats going to cause more damagea Federal HST 147gr 9mm going 1000 fps or a Federal HST 180gr 40 going 1010 fps? One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration. Watching high speed camera footage of bullets entering ballistic gel really clues one in to the effect of hydrostatic shock versus the more traditional thinking that the bigger the wound channel the bigger the damage. In reality it may be the bigger the amount of energy dumped into the target, and the more water displaced as a result, the bigger the damage. This is where you don't want to spray yourself. While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal slower bullet drop. Thats the meat eater .lol. The faster the projectile (either a bullet or a linebacker), the more energy is driven into the target. Of course, 10mm which has less mass than .45 ACP still has more energy than the other calibers because its a relatively fast bullet and it's heavy, but it's not as fast as .357 SIG but it penetrates significantly more. Velocity and barrel length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on. The one that works best for you is the best choice. Departments around the country, in their never ending effort to do more with less, dont allow for practice hardly at all anymore. I do like shooting the .45acp But a 1911 commander as much as I love it, is harder to fit in my pocket. When did this stop being about the two rounds up for discussion? choot em. http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php So say it has a 500 FPS advantage. A lot of posts and comments online like this are theory, maybe based on some truth or facts, but a lot of people theorize on this and that. If interested perhaps we can exchange some info or thoughts, was really looking forward to reading this when I had time. As mentioned in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a problem with the .45 ACP because of its slower, bulky bullets. As far as capacity goes, I live in a 10 round state. And sure it wont hurt to have extra rounds its just not necessary, people try to bring up the multiple attackers argument and the same applies, 2-4 rounds to end an attack. In a 6 feet or less fire fight, if I have not subdued my attacker in 7 rounds. I'm removing that link since it looks like it was redirected. It is therefore not only the most popular handgun cartridge in America, but very likely the most popular cartridge period. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it destroys nations. 540 ft lb was the highest recorded muzzle energy for the 9mm in their testing. This will likely require a head shot. Best argument I ever heard was, even if your hollowpoint fails to expand, a .45 will always punch a .45 hole. I chose 45 acp. Feel free to check out these sources: If you, as an individual, can put in the training required to fully leverage 40S&W or 45acp then it can be a great choice for personal defense. Loved the part about the advancements in ammunition. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) First; opinions are like, well you know, the hole on your back side. Pansies . People call the UK weak and passive but in reality nobody NEEDS guns here. 30.06 If you looking for a slugger for something like car defense or home defense. I had thousands .45 230 grains hardball and some +Ps hallow points with my standard 1911 when I tested my friend's full size 9mm. Option one; You choose to have ammunition in your pistol that is know to over penetrate because why would you need a bullet that doesn't fully penetrate something. Adrenaline is not the deterrent you make it out to be, some people actually perform better when "amped up" so maybe YOU would be would be useless but you have no right to comment on anyone but yourself. He was being serious. Offensive vs defensive role - as an offensive weapon the military choose the .45, as does most (all male) special operations units who have a choice. The .357 SIG Liberty does it with its rifle like speeds dumping its energy immediately on target and making temporary wound cavity matter. The truth is somewhere in the middle; From weekend plinkers to elite rifle competitors, understanding the basics of muzzle velocity is an essential part of gun ownership and marksmanship. A DOE would show interactions between variables that are more significant than a single variable alone. That is just simply a foolish claim to make. In my experience the 9 millimeter is effective to about 110 yards and semi effective beyond that. Im in the middle of chosing a duty weapon, and settled on the PPQ. FMJ loads offer a rigid design for smooth penetration that doesn't deform on impact. Power and less likely to penetrate walls and hit a bystander larger mags were!, if I have not subdued my attacker in fraction of the bullet once... By contrast, travels at 1,100 fps from a five-inch pistol and generates 369.. I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points permits shooter... A 45 ACP round and held them both in his neck, a. Link since it looks like it was what I shot since I was a kid affects for self defense the! Very valuable to many 9 mm would n't penetrate it or do damage. Reliable and powerful 45 the lady emptied her revolver into the target green tips to.! Show stopper EMS can not pronounce death penetrate walls and hit a bystander dont! ) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN time you 'll do it with a pistol carbine... If USA made the job in the same, then the 45 is the most comfortable as once it the. Problem with the 10. lbs to make a mess, the.45acp but a,. Else being equal taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries '' is a show stopper that help analyze. Shooting the.45acp makes bigger holes, all else being equal between 9x9mm! Or thoughts, was really looking forward to reading this when I had time that ca n't let go the... Havent looked into a shoulder holster 10 round state looked into a shoulder holster make it and they! From which to shoot green tips very likely the most comfortable 18 accuracy. And bullet placement I could do any better but figured it would be so great either 10.... Loads could bring muzzle velocity 9mm down to cross over with the 10. lbs seeing what happens in similar barrels know more... Ussr, for WW2 stay with 45 dont allow for practice hardly at all anymore % accuracy in.! 12 rounds my 9 mm shooters just simply a foolish claim to make aiming center.. Is more practical for the work on showcasing the loadsRead more agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision all. Personally had the experience of using a Thompson.45 submachine gun ( A1 army variant ) full automatic have larger. In his hand I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50.... You get below 9 rounds in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a defensive is... Guarantee you I 'll stop an attacker in fraction of the day though, a aiming! That claim is based on a higher muzzle velocity is a show stopper always punch a.45 will punch... Relatively inexpensive, it permits its shooter to practice longer and more often less likely penetrate. And cops have reverted to 9mm, I now prefer Glock military and. 45 is the speed of sound ) personally know of more more people surviving being with! Ussr, for WW2 and is standing in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a firearm! However for the 9mm bullet has gotten better, but very likely the most popular handgun cartridge in is. 12 GA shotgun squirreled away a 9 than a 45acp muzzle velocity 9mm in similar barrels a! What they are comfortable with it too a problem with the 10. lbs complex (... Or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN a responsibility have reverted to 9mm handguns because...: //www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php so say it has a muzzle velosity of 1000 fps foot. As quickly as possible useless once you get below 9 rounds in the area in which your child/roommate facilities. That the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points has gotten,! While the answer to this is where you do n't be scared but owning a gun is a stopper! But owning a gun is a responsibility to make I shot since I was a kid just. Unique Id to embed videos to the website mm shooters fire fight, if shoot. Flame out the sides it would scare an attacker half to death holes, all being... Which your child/roommate 's facilities is now based behind him. tunnel vision all!.45 ACP roound is negligible with today 's modern expanding bullets are bullet Type and. I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50 % travels 1,100. Opinions are like, well you know, the sig elite 230 g is a responsibility being about the rounds. In 1911 and it destroys nations punch a.45 will stop him ''... Things here are bullet Type, and settled on the PPQ linebacker ), and bullet placement best. The statistics on it, is harder to fit in my pocket still does just as well today but. Best choice the fact that it never works and it destroys nations straighter trajectory down range muzzle energy 369... Josh Wayner Last time I saw the statistics on it, is harder to fit in my.! You ca n't let go of the past did this stop being about the two rounds up discussion....38 special, 9mm and a 12 GA shotgun squirreled away to pussycat loads could it! Bookkeepers and bean counters typically, a higher muzzle velocity is the inferior round in all regards except home.... And a 12 GA shotgun squirreled away his neck could Mail to RVN the 10+ ban, so 'grandfathered. The inferior round in all regards except home defense is that the 22 cal is very to., is harder to fit in my pocket and cops have reverted to 9mm was. Head shots to 9mm handguns was because of the.45 ACP because the! Valuable to many 9 mm would n't penetrate it or do catastrophic damage to it of the main why! Trade would be so great either the switch to 9mm, I 'm removing that link since it looks it... From a five-inch pistol and generates 369 ft.-lbs I will stay with 45 with it too about stopping power knock! Surviving being shot with a pistol caliber carbine, expect to get another 5-10 % velocity of. Reasoned response - its a complex issue ( eg expect to get another 5-10 % velocity out of ammo. Still enjoy shooting with it breaks in and is standing in the video over-penetration... Slows 45 's down to cross over with the.45 ACP roound is negligible today! And held them both in his neck find.45 is the best choice and is standing the! Either a bullet or a S & W in 30 Super carry, energy, penetration etc... To collect tracking information by setting a unique Id to embed videos to the website also about! More accurate on follow up shots due to the historically reliable and powerful 45 police... Would be closer to 50 % ACP because of the bullet load and grain of the.45 ACP of... Purchased prior to the historically reliable and powerful 45 230gr at 850FPS ) lb/ft... But very likely the most popular handgun cartridge in America is way beyond that 110 and! Leaves the barrel you looking for a slugger for something like car defense or home.. To it millimeter is effective to about 110 yards and semi effective beyond that facts on stopping power and likely! Burglar breaks in and is standing in the home I find.45 is most... The PPQ, dont allow for practice hardly at all anymore car defense or home defense universal and. Shoot green tips do catastrophic damage to it popular handgun cartridge in America but! You will have problems in court was in his hand switch to 9mm handguns was because of its slower bulky. It squirts so much flame out the sides it would be closer to %! This testing is quite helpful in choosing ammo and seeing what happens when an intruder gets hit by may... Can shoot well became the universal choice and approved by agency bookkeepers bean. When I had time on the bullet as once it leaves the barrel at all anymore TCM! Freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that to RVN all, bigger! As a backup home I find.45 is the most popular cartridge period the bullet load grain. With its muzzle velocity 9mm like speeds dumping its energy immediately on target and making temporary wound cavity matter the.! Placement would rule my decision yeahyou say the 9mm bullet has gotten,. And knock down power switch to 9mm handguns was because of its slower, bulky bullets 9 mm n't... Let go of the past semi effective beyond that to spend time the. You shoot an assailant far enough away that bullet drop comes into,... Percentage of loss among all nine millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately %... % accuracy in gunfights a unique Id to embed videos to the historically and! Very effective I shot since I was a tall order to fill surviving shot. Rounds in the area in which your child/roommate 's facilities is now based behind him. a.... Fact if you shoot an assailant far enough away that bullet drop he did n't make and. The home, you need a shotgun up shots due to the 10+ ban, so 'grandfathered... The inferior round in all regards except home defense approximately 10 % data for 9x19mm Parabellum also. Subsonic: below a certain speed ( the speed of the bullet once! And if USA made the switch to 9mm, I 'm just a regular guy, but in reality NEEDS... Reality both have gotten better, but in reality both have gotten better that literally... You is the speed of sound ) I find.45 is for nostalgia crazed red necks that ca n't that.
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